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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts Kate valentine and farrugia

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prepare to head her paradigms shifted

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into truths questioned and now shattered

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reality hi welcome back to another

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podcast or blogcast I should say and I

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am Kate Valentine and I am Farrugia and

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today is februari 16 2016 and all of us

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here are just coming down from wild

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weekend of partying Valentine's Day and

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presidents but when people start to get

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too romantic about Valentine's Day I

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always say it's celebrating the st.

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Valentine's Day Massacre that kind of

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quiets them down a little bit that was

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must have been a lot of fun for the

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people perpetrating it perhaps I guess

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if you're a psychopath yeah you know

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anyway we have a wonderful guest with us

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today and purusha I think you found out

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about this gentleman yes I did the the

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guests that we have today is a dream

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studies expert and dreams are such an

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unusual part of our lives just about

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everybody has dreams not everybody

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remembers the dreams some people dream

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in color some in black and white and

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dreams can include other sensory things

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like tastes and smells and touch and

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it's a very very strange state of mind

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to be in a different different place and

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sometimes

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dreams seem very real like lucid dreams

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in any case I came across this gentleman

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several years ago when I I do write a

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blog it's Farrugia dot wordpress.com

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just in case anybody wants to know and I

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had written a blog that concerned itself

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with sleep paralysis and how I've

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suffered from it and have had incredible

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experiences with sleep paralysis and I

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wrote a blog piece about it and what it

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was was saying that um a an alien

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because we deal with aliens a lot on

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this show aliens and UFOs right yeah

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sure I love them and look what and what

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happened to me was it would seem to me

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like I was possibly being abducted in my

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sleep paralysis and it did occur to me

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that if an alien race whether it be a

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physical race or a race in a different

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dimension of beings in another dimension

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were so far ahead of us that they were

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traveling interstellar space it was also

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quite possible that they knew more about

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our biology than we do and because all

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higher mammals seem to suffer from sleep

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paralysis which essentially is not being

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able to move while you're sleeping

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because you wouldn't want to jump out

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the window while you were dreaming

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because you had such a dream and that

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the the others i'll just call them

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others i won't call them aliens i'll

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just call them others the others might

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be aware of that and know that we are

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angry apes with guns and don't want to

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meet us face on head-on and so they use

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that state of dream paralysis to subdue

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us if you will and then they can find

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out whatever they need to about us or in

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part something to us if they so desire

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so I

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long story short and it's getting to be

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a long story here but long story short I

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wrote this blog piece or two and

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actually this blog piece was is still

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the most popular hands down blog piece I

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ever wrote it was so popular I had to

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shut down the comments because so many

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people wrote in and people continue to

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contact me on my email having read it

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and send me stories about their sleep

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paralysis nightmares so I was looking

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for somewhere to go to find out what I

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could do to help these people that was

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beyond my Ken you know a little bit

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going towards the scientific towards the

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psychological and away a little bit from

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the paranormal simply because I wanted

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to enter these people because some of

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them seemed not angered and so I found

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our guest today our guest today is mr.

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Ryan heard he is a consciousness

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researcher and author and is the founder

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of dream studies org it's a wonderful

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site it is dedicated to sleep dreams and

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imagination his books include dream like

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a boss books 1 & 2 lucid immersion

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guidebook a holistic blueprint for lucid

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dreaming and sleep paralysis a guide to

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hypnagogic visions and visitors of the

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night he also co-edited with Kelly

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Buckley the two-volume reference edition

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of lucid dreaming new perspectives on

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consciousness and sleep now as an

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educator Ryan has presented to a wide

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range of audiences including invited

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lectures for the Ted med talks Stanford

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University the Institute of Buddhist

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studies and the prestigious Rhine

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Institute

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which is down in North Carolina as a

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researcher he has presented and

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published papers on sleep paralysis

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lucid nightmares and the application of

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dreaming for uncovering research bias

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and novelty I'm going to have a question

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for him about research bias he is a

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board member of the international

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association for the study of dreams and

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a member of the American Anthropological

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Association and the Society for the

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Anthropology of consciousness and later

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on he will tell you his sights his

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research sites and all the places where

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you can find him and he will also repeat

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his books if you didn't catch it when I

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said it so let us welcome Ryan heard wow

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it's quite an introduction great to have

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you with us right thank you for that

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wonderful introduction I am quite

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pleased with myself now hilarious but I

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love the way you introduce sleep

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paralysis and I love the term that you

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use about the about the others I think

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that's a wonderful way to approach it

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because it doesn't define it it's just

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like we don't know what this is that's

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correct it's a good way to start is but

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I obviously you're fairly knowledgeable

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about people being visited by others

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yeah and I have experienced that myself

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and so so this is a subject that's very

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near and dear to me I actually was 14

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years old the first time I encountered

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sleep paralysis with with the vision

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component which not everybody gets and

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it was one of the scariest experiences

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of my life yeah it took years for me to

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kind of recover the experience because I

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sort of shoved it away and you very

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quickly realized that not many people

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wanted to hear about it and realize that

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dreaming experiences that you

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no they're taboo they're actually quite

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common do you find like a certain type

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of person that experiences is as opposed

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to others yeah they're actually a few

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subsets of populations that experience

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sleep paralysis what mule maybe I should

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define sleep paralysis for everyone just

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to start with because there's really

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several kind of layers to the experience

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the first in the most common is actually

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a feeling of paralysis or immobility

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when you're waking up were going to

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sleep and so it's very common to happen

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either in the mornings or sometimes that

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you're sleep deprived right as you're

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going to sleep and actually feels like

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something or someone is holding you down

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it feels like a pressure awaited

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pressure and that's the core experience

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that's why it's called sleep paralysis

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and it has a biological you know

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function to it it's well known and well

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studied but it gets weirder you know and

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it gets weird because because for one

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thing you become quite emotional quite

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quickly especially if you don't have any

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way of explaining what's happened to you

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if this is the first time it's happened

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then it can feel quite paranormal I mean

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I think the mind goes there immediately

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and and into fear can spiral because you

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are in a hybrid dream state you're

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basically the month the mantra I used to

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describe it is that is that the mind is

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awake but the body is asleep and in this

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hybrid state this Borderlands of

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consciousness between the waking world

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and the dream world you're still even

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though you've got your logical

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capabilities and you're thinking as if

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you're in waking life and everything

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feels quite real you're able to sort of

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project dreaming awareness and

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consciousness into the scene too and

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that's where that heightened emotion

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ality comes in people get very scared

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very quickly it can heighten even to

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death anxiety

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especially for people who number one

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don't have a culture or B have a culture

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that that that explains this as demons

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and as succubi and other kinds of you

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know terrible creatures because you pull

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right into that so that's the second

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level of weirdness the next level of

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weirdness is is that people feel a

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sensed presence in the room so it's not

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just the feeling necessarily of feeling

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the pressure but sometimes about twenty

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percent of the time there is a sensed

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presence something is not you and it's

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in the room and it's usually considered

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malevolent it's considered like it's

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focusing on you and it's just a feeling

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of right a feeling of that you're in

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relationship with with this unseen other

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this unseen entity and from there then

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the the dream vision can get even deeper

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and fulfill sort of all the expectations

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of your worst possible nightmare and

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what I'm talking about is a full-on

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three dimensional vision that integrates

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with your waking environment that

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involves actually seen the entity having

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it sit next to you it can it can molest

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the dreamer it can actually sexually

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molest the dreamer feelings of pain can

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be felt as well as feelings of ecstasy

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feelings of pleasure and sometimes and

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this is very strange is if the feelings

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of disgust fear and and in the erotica

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sensations all come together in a very

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unpinned and what happens also beyond

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this is that the dreamer can be

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catapulted into outside of their bedroom

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into a out-of-body experience or even go

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into a dream and be completely in an

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unrelated dream scene and maintain

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awareness and so so those are sort of

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the escalating levels of weirdness that

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strangely right

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placid term sleep paralysis describes

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well I wanted to ask you if you have any

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knowledge of other higher mammals

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experiencing sleep paralysis as we have

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all seen dogs who appear to be asleep

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but then their legs are going but

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they're not going anywhere I had a cat

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that would be sleeping and she would

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start talking on not English but also

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not meowing she was sort of like making

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sounds like she was having a

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conversation with someone and she was

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asleep so I am assuming that higher

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mammals I'm by assuming I don't mean it

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comes out of nowhere I mean that there

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is something which we experience when we

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see a sleeping animal that occasionally

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would mimic in my mind what sleep

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paralysis might look like you say in a

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dog or a cat yeah I actually think

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you're you're absolutely right i mean

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what's the paralysis is is it is it well

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it's explained as let me put it that way

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because we don't have all the answers

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yet is is it's a rem intrusion so rapid

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eye movement sleep the stage of sleep or

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dreaming you know vivid dreaming usually

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00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:43,620
occurs is intruding into wakefulness or

275
00:14:48,410 --> 00:14:46,740
into stage one sleep or sort of debt

276
00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:48,420
stage of sleep that feels like deep

277
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:51,300
relaxation alright so it isn't a rim

278
00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:53,459
intrusion it is it is very much about

279
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:55,980
REM sleep in terms of the experiences

280
00:15:01,329 --> 00:14:58,410
themselves because in REM sleep in

281
00:15:04,009 --> 00:15:01,339
normal rama sleep we feel this paralysis

282
00:15:06,170 --> 00:15:04,019
it's happening every night we just don't

283
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:06,180
remember it because we're safely in the

284
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:08,970
dream world and one would suspect that

285
00:15:15,379 --> 00:15:12,000
this evolved it's been described as hep

286
00:15:17,449 --> 00:15:15,389
being basically an evolved mechanism for

287
00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:17,459
preventing us from your acting out our

288
00:15:22,009 --> 00:15:20,129
dreams source swash buckling our sleep

289
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:22,019
partners when we're like living out a

290
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,809
pirate fantasy in our dream where you

291
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,120
know we're in mobile so we can live out

292
00:15:31,699 --> 00:15:29,519
the dream fantasy so it seems to be a

293
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:31,709
hiccup in that process and given now we

294
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:35,250
know what cats and dogs sleep and cats

295
00:15:39,470 --> 00:15:35,730
and

296
00:15:44,420 --> 00:15:39,480
definitely have REM sleep all higher

297
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:44,430
mammals have REM so I would suspect that

298
00:15:50,090 --> 00:15:47,519
sleep paralysis could occur as a hiccup

299
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:50,100
although it's impossible to verify

300
00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,120
because right the communication issues

301
00:15:58,220 --> 00:15:55,800
but I would suspect that that it could

302
00:16:00,740 --> 00:15:58,230
could be possible now the question is is

303
00:16:02,569 --> 00:16:00,750
it impactful when they know about it

304
00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:02,579
would they think about it later I mean

305
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:04,110
all these kind of higher cognition

306
00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:07,170
questions that we don't know about about

307
00:16:11,870 --> 00:16:09,870
cats and dogs maybe Dalton's you know

308
00:16:13,370 --> 00:16:11,880
probably have the like may be the best

309
00:16:15,550 --> 00:16:13,380
literature on the topic but we just

310
00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:15,560
don't know if we don't speak dolphin

311
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:21,990
well that that's certainly true so have

312
00:16:27,860 --> 00:16:25,680
you heard I'm sure you have about and

313
00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:27,870
probably have written about the

314
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:30,980
vibrational state that occurs sometimes

315
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:36,240
with sleep paralysis which is goes

316
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:41,130
before the out-of-body experience should

317
00:16:47,059 --> 00:16:44,370
it occur absolutely in oh it's such a

318
00:16:50,569 --> 00:16:47,069
cool feeling I've felt it hundreds of

319
00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:50,579
times myself and it's some people

320
00:16:54,769 --> 00:16:52,529
experience it more than others some

321
00:16:57,199 --> 00:16:54,779
people never experience it so there

322
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:57,209
seems to be you know some individual

323
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:00,240
differences there right but it is

324
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:02,399
there's you know this is typically

325
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:05,010
described in from a dreaming perspective

326
00:17:14,590 --> 00:17:08,910
as as hypnagogic hallucination and it

327
00:17:17,090 --> 00:17:14,600
tends to involve vestibular vestibular

328
00:17:19,340 --> 00:17:17,100
activity in the brain so there's there's

329
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:19,350
basically there's a sense of self

330
00:17:23,329 --> 00:17:21,449
there's gravity shifting there's

331
00:17:25,970 --> 00:17:23,339
morphine happening that we can't quite

332
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:25,980
account for it causes feelings of

333
00:17:30,260 --> 00:17:28,530
confusion it's happening you know deep

334
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:30,270
in the brain essentially and they or in

335
00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:33,540
the inner ear and in we've got all kinds

336
00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:35,640
of studies that show that that is what's

337
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:37,740
firing up when these experiences are

338
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:41,970
happening it's absolutely an indicator

339
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:45,929
that you could if you choose roll that

340
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:49,410
into an out-of-body experience now

341
00:17:55,930 --> 00:17:52,080
my mind out-of-body experiences are

342
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:55,940
varied and different however there's one

343
00:18:02,230 --> 00:17:58,260
main difference between two different

344
00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:02,240
kinds and in my mind this is just my own

345
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:04,980
characterization of it there would be

346
00:18:09,050 --> 00:18:07,290
the experience where you go out of your

347
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:09,060
body whether you're pulled out or you go

348
00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:12,960
out voluntarily and you are in pretty

349
00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:16,140
much in the world as you know it pretty

350
00:18:19,970 --> 00:18:18,390
much if you go out of your body and you

351
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:19,980
go down the stairs you'll be in your

352
00:18:26,990 --> 00:18:24,210
house and then there are others which

353
00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:27,000
the world is slightly different closer

354
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:30,840
to a dream state where some things may

355
00:18:35,660 --> 00:18:33,600
be recognizable and then others are

356
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:35,670
rather different than in the waking

357
00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:39,710
state can you speak to that at all

358
00:18:44,750 --> 00:18:42,390
absolutely yeah out-of-body experiences

359
00:18:47,180 --> 00:18:44,760
I mean I what's so interesting to me is

360
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:47,190
as I think that there are we really

361
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:49,250
talking about probably multiple

362
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:53,190
phenomena here and there they're related

363
00:18:57,650 --> 00:18:55,290
in the sense that there's a sense of

364
00:18:59,570 --> 00:18:57,660
moving outside of their body but as you

365
00:19:01,130 --> 00:18:59,580
described there's there's these

366
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:01,140
different varieties of them and they

367
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:03,510
seem to be related to essentially your

368
00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:07,520
mode of exit so sleep paralysis

369
00:19:13,550 --> 00:19:10,740
out-of-body experiences are highly

370
00:19:14,990 --> 00:19:13,560
correlated with lucid dreaming and in

371
00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:15,000
one can move from an out-of-body

372
00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:17,820
experience into you know a conscious

373
00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:21,960
dream and you know with in a fluid state

374
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:25,380
right and so at first it seems like

375
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:28,290
you're in your waking life bedroom when

376
00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:29,940
you go out of body in a sleep paralysis

377
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:32,220
encounter and then you maybe you'll melt

378
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:34,080
through the window but when you get

379
00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:35,610
outside it's a completely different

380
00:19:41,530 --> 00:19:38,070
landscape right it's more like a dream

381
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:41,540
landscape whereas hyper-realistic

382
00:19:47,060 --> 00:19:43,890
out-of-body experiences that occur from

383
00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:47,070
the waking world right they have a

384
00:19:51,740 --> 00:19:49,380
different feel to them and you know and

385
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:51,750
i think the near-death experience being

386
00:19:55,670 --> 00:19:53,940
one of them you know with somebody and

387
00:19:57,950 --> 00:19:55,680
you don't actually have to be near death

388
00:20:02,600 --> 00:19:57,960
to have a near-death experience it can

389
00:20:03,139 --> 00:20:02,610
be triggered by by a sudden drop of

390
00:20:05,779 --> 00:20:03,149
blood

391
00:20:08,899 --> 00:20:05,789
sure essentially that turns on turns on

392
00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:08,909
this Ram switch and you checked yourself

393
00:20:14,089 --> 00:20:11,820
from you know from the phenomenal body

394
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:14,099
the body as you perceive it I mean I've

395
00:20:19,489 --> 00:20:16,080
seen heard so many multiple cases of

396
00:20:21,379 --> 00:20:19,499
people who have spontaneous o BES when

397
00:20:24,139 --> 00:20:21,389
they're in a car wreck for instance and

398
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:24,149
it's just it's it happen so fast and

399
00:20:28,999 --> 00:20:25,919
they're out of their body and then

400
00:20:31,219 --> 00:20:29,009
they're back in and and and then of

401
00:20:32,570 --> 00:20:31,229
course there's there's the relaxation of

402
00:20:34,519 --> 00:20:32,580
the trance related out-of-body

403
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:34,529
experience which is the kind where you

404
00:20:39,799 --> 00:20:36,210
see where deck this kind is often being

405
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:39,809
taught by my practitioners yes this is

406
00:20:44,869 --> 00:20:42,210
coming out of light sleeping or you know

407
00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:44,879
what i would call trance and it involves

408
00:20:49,310 --> 00:20:47,609
reclining in your chair may be listening

409
00:20:51,369 --> 00:20:49,320
in to some music out of headphones or

410
00:20:54,049 --> 00:20:51,379
binaural beats there's kind of ways to

411
00:20:56,089 --> 00:20:54,059
you know different ways to get into this

412
00:20:59,209 --> 00:20:56,099
and those out-of-body experiences

413
00:21:00,769 --> 00:20:59,219
although they're dreamlike and longer

414
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:00,779
lasting than a near-death experience

415
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:03,210
type situation they seem to be hyper

416
00:21:09,769 --> 00:21:06,330
realistic it is that is that how you

417
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:09,779
parse it as well uh basically i would

418
00:21:15,979 --> 00:21:12,690
have to agree with most of what you said

419
00:21:18,669 --> 00:21:15,989
in terms of the trance induced ones um

420
00:21:21,379 --> 00:21:18,679
they seem to be somewhere between

421
00:21:23,889 --> 00:21:21,389
extraordinarily realistic and

422
00:21:27,379 --> 00:21:23,899
extraordinary fendt extraordinarily

423
00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:27,389
fantastical i did take a class with Bill

424
00:21:34,639 --> 00:21:30,529
Bowman who you probably have heard of on

425
00:21:37,729 --> 00:21:34,649
out-of-body experiences and one of his

426
00:21:42,499 --> 00:21:37,739
his you would kind of rock your body and

427
00:21:44,869 --> 00:21:42,509
also Bob Monroe had that experience

428
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:44,879
where you would listen to binaural beats

429
00:21:50,089 --> 00:21:47,129
and then you would begin to feel your

430
00:21:53,629 --> 00:21:50,099
your inner body rocking from side to

431
00:21:55,249 --> 00:21:53,639
side and your feet along gating or your

432
00:21:58,489 --> 00:21:55,259
head along gating and then you could

433
00:22:02,779 --> 00:21:58,499
kind of pop out like that if you wanted

434
00:22:06,139 --> 00:22:02,789
to and of course the the near-death

435
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:06,149
experience for whatever it turns out to

436
00:22:13,159 --> 00:22:10,799
actually be it it seems to be sometimes

437
00:22:16,530 --> 00:22:13,169
more fantastical where you're more apt

438
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:16,540
to see non-physical entities

439
00:22:23,340 --> 00:22:19,120
and sometimes they're very meaningful

440
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:23,350
but we have to move this back to what is

441
00:22:27,630 --> 00:22:25,770
veridical about a lot of these

442
00:22:31,290 --> 00:22:27,640
experiences you know Ryan because

443
00:22:33,630 --> 00:22:31,300
sometimes we will see things or for

444
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:33,640
instance when a something that's very

445
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:37,360
close to at a body which is like an

446
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:40,960
astral projection I practiced that when

447
00:22:47,250 --> 00:22:43,570
I was in my late teens and in my 20s and

448
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:47,260
I would try to have fun and astrally

449
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:50,710
project to where somebody I knew was you

450
00:22:57,090 --> 00:22:54,250
know if Jimmy was at the tenth Street

451
00:22:59,640 --> 00:22:57,100
Bar I would astrally project myself to

452
00:23:01,740 --> 00:22:59,650
the tenth Street floor and say find him

453
00:23:04,050 --> 00:23:01,750
drinking Manhattan's instead of that

454
00:23:05,550 --> 00:23:04,060
usual high polls and say hey Jimmy what

455
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:05,560
do you what were you doing last night at

456
00:23:09,090 --> 00:23:07,450
the tenth Street bar drinking

457
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:09,100
Manhattan's instead of highballs and

458
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:13,090
have him basically faint there was no

459
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:18,010
Jimmy though oh that's yeah that's great

460
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:19,930
and I thanks for bringing up that piece

461
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:23,200
about near-death experiences of having I

462
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:25,510
mean they really i think go so far

463
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:27,760
beyond that basic out-of-body experience

464
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:30,640
and really do I mean are another level

465
00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:34,090
of right you're contacting heavenly you

466
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:37,300
know entities ancestors there's the life

467
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:38,650
review there's all these different

468
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:41,350
components to the near-death that really

469
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:43,530
is kind of unique to that particular

470
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:45,910
experience so I think yeah I think the

471
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:47,890
out-of-body experience space is huge i

472
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:49,810
think that you know we it's not just all

473
00:23:53,310 --> 00:23:52,090
one thing and so you got to be very

474
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:53,320
skeptical of someone who says well

475
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:56,710
they're all dreams or right or they're

476
00:24:01,050 --> 00:23:58,960
all hallucinations as well i I don't

477
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:01,060
think we don't really can't say about

478
00:24:06,890 --> 00:24:03,910
that and especially when you look at as

479
00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:06,900
you're saying you know telepathic

480
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:10,780
information that comes to DS and and you

481
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:13,330
know I've reviewed the telepathic dream

482
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:17,290
research and it's compelling yeah it it

483
00:24:23,970 --> 00:24:22,450
is so far beyond chance and and and some

484
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,980
of these studies have been done again

485
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,840
and again and you know Anders and

486
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:27,760
there's problems with some of some of it

487
00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:29,110
and that's for sure and the research

488
00:24:31,410 --> 00:24:30,070
could be improved

489
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,420
that's for sure but that's true with all

490
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:34,000
social science research and dream

491
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:36,010
telepathy research is far above the

492
00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:38,050
standards of what is expected for any

493
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:40,660
other social science in terms of like

494
00:24:44,940 --> 00:24:43,090
the p-values and in the statistical

495
00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:44,950
right the quantifications of the data

496
00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:47,950
and how that data is parsed it's quite

497
00:24:53,310 --> 00:24:51,580
clean and so and so it's just people of

498
00:24:55,290 --> 00:24:53,320
course are biased about looking it

499
00:24:57,390 --> 00:24:55,300
actually looking at it well you know

500
00:25:01,710 --> 00:24:57,400
they say that extraordinary claims

501
00:25:04,340 --> 00:25:01,720
require extraordinary proof so that when

502
00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:04,350
you are shaking the cage of the

503
00:25:10,530 --> 00:25:07,720
materialist reductionist model of

504
00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:10,540
science when you're shaking that cage

505
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:12,550
you have to have somewhat extraordinary

506
00:25:19,260 --> 00:25:15,760
proof like a standard deviation higher

507
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:19,270
than for other things right yeah it's so

508
00:25:25,170 --> 00:25:22,000
it's so true and and what I think is is

509
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:25,180
that honestly that thats I or telepathy

510
00:25:31,620 --> 00:25:28,480
or whatever it is that's going on with

511
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:31,630
this information I think it's a weak

512
00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:34,960
effect in general in the lab because of

513
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,350
the way that the way that the structures

514
00:25:43,290 --> 00:25:40,480
the studies are structured and I think

515
00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:43,300
it's a much higher effect in a field in

516
00:25:48,990 --> 00:25:45,910
everyday life because we tend to have

517
00:25:51,210 --> 00:25:49,000
these experiences about people who we

518
00:25:53,370 --> 00:25:51,220
care about who we know well who were

519
00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:53,380
connected with on a heart level about

520
00:25:58,410 --> 00:25:56,260
issues of like life and death and

521
00:26:00,870 --> 00:25:58,420
wellness and that's you know if you look

522
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:00,880
at the if the letters of JB line for

523
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:03,430
instance that it that I'm that Mary

524
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:06,970
collected over the decades you know

525
00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:08,650
seventy percent of the letters are

526
00:26:15,660 --> 00:26:12,270
telepathic dreams and most of those are

527
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:15,670
about you know premonitions of someone

528
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:19,500
dying or being sick I noticed in your

529
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:22,690
biography that you more or less started

530
00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:26,700
as an archaeologist in North America

531
00:26:33,410 --> 00:26:30,790
pardon me go through politics well I was

532
00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:33,420
I was trained as a field archaeologist

533
00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:36,700
esta says I did cultural Resource

534
00:26:41,610 --> 00:26:39,670
Management for about a decade after

535
00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:41,620
getting my bachelor's degree in

536
00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:43,630
anthropology and our

537
00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:45,790
theology and I actually you know I

538
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:48,670
worked in a lab I worked in the field

539
00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:52,150
all across the United States and you

540
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:55,480
know I was uh I was a pottery expert for

541
00:26:59,970 --> 00:26:57,120
a while for a very specific

542
00:27:02,610 --> 00:26:59,980
pre-columbian stage of pottery that

543
00:27:04,740 --> 00:27:02,620
nobody knows about it's one of those you

544
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:04,750
know random skills I've developed over

545
00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:07,210
the years haha and you know it was

546
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:09,430
involved with excavations and surveys

547
00:27:16,050 --> 00:27:12,690
and I had a wonderful time with it but I

548
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:16,060
realized that that I was being called

549
00:27:20,550 --> 00:27:18,610
back to doing dream research I mean

550
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:20,560
dream being less I called back I really

551
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:22,330
mean because it has always been my

552
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,060
number one passion growing up as a

553
00:27:29,850 --> 00:27:28,240
teenager and as a young adult it's just

554
00:27:31,620 --> 00:27:29,860
wondering if perhaps you had learned

555
00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:31,630
something from the Native Americans

556
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:36,310
because they they tend to be sort of

557
00:27:40,830 --> 00:27:38,800
more that way than is as ferocious said

558
00:27:42,930 --> 00:27:40,840
with modern science with reduction of

559
00:27:45,930 --> 00:27:42,940
science I mean their belief is quite

560
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:45,940
strong there's there's some really

561
00:27:52,260 --> 00:27:48,850
wonderful yes there's some really

562
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:52,270
wonderful contemporary Native American

563
00:27:58,740 --> 00:27:55,000
dreamers out there who are still

564
00:28:01,200 --> 00:27:58,750
practicing their arts and some of them

565
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:01,210
are quite open to talking to everybody

566
00:28:05,940 --> 00:28:03,520
about what they do and how they do it

567
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:05,950
and you have to remember that even like

568
00:28:12,450 --> 00:28:08,830
the dreamcatcher was essentially a gift

569
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:12,460
for all of humanity it is not culturally

570
00:28:18,540 --> 00:28:15,910
appropriated it was it was a please take

571
00:28:22,170 --> 00:28:18,550
this and go far with it they know it

572
00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:22,180
came out of the plains traditions please

573
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:25,390
everybody use this you know and and so I

574
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:27,790
yeah there's you know a very strong I

575
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:30,010
think dreaming sense that comes from the

576
00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:33,010
land it comes from the history and the

577
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,110
people that are still with us here in

578
00:28:41,730 --> 00:28:38,080
Native American absolutely what would

579
00:28:45,050 --> 00:28:41,740
you feel okay about mentioning on on the

580
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:45,060
air here a couple of the people that you

581
00:28:52,860 --> 00:28:49,210
find compelling in the Native American

582
00:28:56,850 --> 00:28:52,870
genre of dream research or dream tellers

583
00:28:59,370 --> 00:28:56,860
or explainers well sure absolutely

584
00:29:01,200 --> 00:28:59,380
and you know as is often the case of

585
00:29:04,289 --> 00:29:01,210
course it you know is involving mixed

586
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:04,299
blood but one of them is appeal of

587
00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:06,610
Colorado who operates out of Hawaii she

588
00:29:12,539 --> 00:29:09,070
operates a foundation called worldwide

589
00:29:14,580 --> 00:29:12,549
indigenous science Network and they're

590
00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:14,590
involved with networking with healers

591
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:17,140
and shamans around the world to help

592
00:29:22,590 --> 00:29:19,450
basically do grassroots environmental

593
00:29:24,419 --> 00:29:22,600
work one awful yeah it's a really really

594
00:29:27,060 --> 00:29:24,429
powerful work and she's been involved in

595
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:27,070
the space and she has her own method of

596
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:30,450
doing dream work that can be done

597
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:32,650
cross-culturally it can even be done

598
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:34,690
with it with if you have a translator

599
00:29:38,940 --> 00:29:37,360
present it has helpful but not everybody

600
00:29:41,850 --> 00:29:38,950
in the room has to speak the same

601
00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:41,860
language and she's been developing that

602
00:29:48,990 --> 00:29:46,390
for a number of years and on also on the

603
00:29:55,860 --> 00:29:49,000
scholarly side Barbara headlock who was

604
00:30:00,210 --> 00:29:55,870
a professor of anthropology at suny

605
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:00,220
buffalo buffalo as has written some

606
00:30:06,930 --> 00:30:03,850
quite a few popular books that that are

607
00:30:09,530 --> 00:30:06,940
about especially a most recent one is

608
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:09,540
the is is the woman in the shamans body

609
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:13,120
and if she basically talks about what's

610
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:16,090
going on in South America in Mexico and

611
00:30:21,299 --> 00:30:19,030
traditions of shamanism that come

612
00:30:22,860 --> 00:30:21,309
through women's line of descent that

613
00:30:25,049 --> 00:30:22,870
have been ignored because most

614
00:30:28,110 --> 00:30:25,059
anthropologists have been men and they

615
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:28,120
ignore women's magic name nor women's

616
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:31,600
power and one of these is is the Midwife

617
00:30:36,409 --> 00:30:34,480
as shaman and the other one is is of

618
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:36,419
course the dream seeker the dream teller

619
00:30:42,299 --> 00:30:40,090
and she's been just doing incredible

620
00:30:45,930 --> 00:30:42,309
work both on the academic side of kind

621
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:45,940
of like filling it in in terms of the

622
00:30:51,930 --> 00:30:49,120
you know other angles marginalized

623
00:30:54,030 --> 00:30:51,940
voices and also on the popular side of

624
00:30:56,460 --> 00:30:54,040
writing books like that it really did is

625
00:30:59,460 --> 00:30:56,470
for anybody to read well I think it

626
00:31:01,380 --> 00:30:59,470
pretty much shut down in Western society

627
00:31:03,450 --> 00:31:01,390
after the witch burnings I mean I think

628
00:31:05,330 --> 00:31:03,460
a lot of women tended to avoid that

629
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:05,340
particular career

630
00:31:13,410 --> 00:31:09,760
did not end well Oh thousands of women

631
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:13,420
killed by the Inquisition across Europe

632
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:15,850
thousands of useful women who practiced

633
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:19,180
herbal medicine and and on midwifery and

634
00:31:24,270 --> 00:31:21,850
things forgetting about any kind of

635
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:24,280
magic which may have magic with a que

636
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:26,950
that may have been for ya for some

637
00:31:30,750 --> 00:31:28,570
reason I always think that there's that

638
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:30,760
underlying suspicion that women may be

639
00:31:34,050 --> 00:31:32,650
better at this and men make it a little

640
00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:34,060
bit more intuitive although I don't

641
00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:35,590
think that's true i think that's

642
00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:38,140
cultural my experience of that justjust

643
00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:42,160
for no other reason is that women tend

644
00:31:50,190 --> 00:31:46,990
to have more be more of the empath but

645
00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:50,200
the actual like the being able to get

646
00:31:56,340 --> 00:31:53,380
people's names for instance or write

647
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,350
down a number that's pretty evenly

648
00:32:01,410 --> 00:31:58,720
distributed between men and women and

649
00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:01,420
when we think about Ingo Swann who was

650
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:04,120
the only remote viewer who could

651
00:32:12,890 --> 00:32:08,130
actually view numbers on that were

652
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:12,900
hidden away from his possible viewpoint

653
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:19,770
and he of K of course was a man so Ryan

654
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:23,050
right now if I'm not mistaken you are

655
00:32:30,150 --> 00:32:27,130
involved with teaching an online lucid

656
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:30,160
dreaming course that's true yeah i'm

657
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:31,500
teaching i'm teaching online

658
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:34,240
independently now my class is called

659
00:32:42,090 --> 00:32:38,770
lucid ignition and as if it's one month

660
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:42,100
process all online where i do live

661
00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:45,100
webinars and we have a dedicated form

662
00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:48,040
and whatnot and i basically teach people

663
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,060
how to do lucid dreaming in a way that's

664
00:32:58,350 --> 00:32:55,120
sustainable in a way that you know

665
00:33:02,610 --> 00:32:58,360
basically forming a secure container in

666
00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:02,620
in a mindful way doing practices of the

667
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:06,100
mind but also of the heart in and you

668
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:08,470
know physical practices all that sort of

669
00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:10,690
what supports this idea of Greater

670
00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:13,540
consciousness in your dreams and in the

671
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:15,940
waking state it's been a blast I run

672
00:33:21,740 --> 00:33:17,410
this course now twice

673
00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:21,750
and I just am really in really enjoying

674
00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:24,580
how how online education is becoming

675
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:26,830
support is getting so good basically

676
00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:29,890
yeah the technology makes it so you can

677
00:33:35,460 --> 00:33:32,350
really just you know being yourself into

678
00:33:37,710 --> 00:33:35,470
people's homes and and teach them

679
00:33:40,530 --> 00:33:37,720
something and it has live discourse

680
00:33:45,420 --> 00:33:40,540
about it and it's it's fantastic it's

681
00:33:48,210 --> 00:33:45,430
almost like sleep body experiences well

682
00:33:50,580 --> 00:33:48,220
yes Ryan will come in who you're yet so

683
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:50,590
you're a living Rosen right on your iPad

684
00:33:57,020 --> 00:33:54,450
and you can look at him and he can live

685
00:33:59,310 --> 00:33:57,030
true we don't even need to project

686
00:34:01,950 --> 00:33:59,320
astrally we all have done for us

687
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:01,960
electronically but what we don't want to

688
00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:06,910
do is lose those wonderful gifts that we

689
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:11,740
have to recognition and and astral

690
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:15,010
projection and so forth and so on so the

691
00:34:19,950 --> 00:34:17,440
if person who is listening to our

692
00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:19,960
podcast over the next couple of years

693
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:21,910
and we'll be up you know for as long as

694
00:34:29,010 --> 00:34:25,810
we're able to keep it up what would you

695
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:29,020
say to a person who wanted to be able to

696
00:34:32,370 --> 00:34:30,730
remember their dreams a little bit

697
00:34:35,330 --> 00:34:32,380
better that seems like a very basic

698
00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:35,340
thing even I you know have to sort of

699
00:34:41,250 --> 00:34:38,470
program myself before i go to sleep to

700
00:34:44,220 --> 00:34:41,260
say remember your dream you're going to

701
00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:44,230
dream tonight a wonderful dream remember

702
00:34:47,700 --> 00:34:45,790
that dream and the first thing in the

703
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:47,710
morning you are going to write it down

704
00:34:52,380 --> 00:34:51,010
in your little notebook that's great I

705
00:34:54,659 --> 00:34:52,390
actually I couldn't set it I couldn't

706
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:54,669
have said it better myself it it really

707
00:35:00,510 --> 00:34:57,240
is about setting an intention to

708
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:00,520
remember more dreams and thence I have

709
00:35:04,350 --> 00:35:02,560
you know something at hand right and

710
00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:04,360
have your journal a lot of people use

711
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:06,520
apps these days on their smartphones or

712
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:09,370
tablets and whatnot and you can even use

713
00:35:14,670 --> 00:35:12,880
voice recorder apps these days whatever

714
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:14,680
works you know the point is is to get

715
00:35:20,610 --> 00:35:17,410
the dream out into the world pretty much

716
00:35:23,550 --> 00:35:20,620
as soon as you can because they go so

717
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:23,560
quickly we really lose so much of a

718
00:35:29,490 --> 00:35:26,830
dream within 10 or 15 minutes after it

719
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:29,500
happens in general you know some people

720
00:35:32,730 --> 00:35:30,710
have have

721
00:35:35,410 --> 00:35:32,740
learned how to have better recall but

722
00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:35,420
for beginners that that's the number one

723
00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:39,320
thing and of course does the logistical

724
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:41,660
nightmare of this if i can say it that

725
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:44,450
way is that so many of us wake up by an

726
00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:48,050
alarm it were jolted awake and we have

727
00:35:52,359 --> 00:35:49,790
to get to work and kind of you know get

728
00:35:55,390 --> 00:35:52,369
into our day and the dreams evaporate

729
00:35:58,540 --> 00:35:55,400
and they're just gone and so one of

730
00:36:02,050 --> 00:35:58,550
trick that I really enjoy doing that I

731
00:36:04,930 --> 00:36:02,060
have done myself is I basically have my

732
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:04,940
alarm set for I so I have basically 10

733
00:36:10,329 --> 00:36:08,210
extra buffer minutes you know in the

734
00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:10,339
scene and when the alarm goes off the

735
00:36:15,970 --> 00:36:13,550
first time I go to tap it off and then I

736
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:15,980
moved back into position that I was

737
00:36:23,170 --> 00:36:18,890
sleeping before I was disturbed and then

738
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:23,180
from there I start actively remembering

739
00:36:29,260 --> 00:36:25,369
my dreams and for some reason when

740
00:36:31,839 --> 00:36:29,270
you're in that body position you have an

741
00:36:33,099 --> 00:36:31,849
easier time worth of a call and of

742
00:36:36,430 --> 00:36:33,109
course you might actually slip back into

743
00:36:37,660 --> 00:36:36,440
a dream if you're a light sleeper you

744
00:36:40,089 --> 00:36:37,670
know and you might have another nine

745
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:40,099
minutes there before the alarm goes off

746
00:36:45,130 --> 00:36:42,890
again but it's a great time to sort of

747
00:36:47,890 --> 00:36:45,140
ease yourself into the waking world

748
00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:47,900
rather than quickly jumping you know

749
00:36:52,810 --> 00:36:49,670
into the tasks that you have in front of

750
00:36:55,390 --> 00:36:52,820
you and that my practice alone can

751
00:36:58,329 --> 00:36:55,400
really just bring all kinds of dreams

752
00:36:59,500 --> 00:36:58,339
back and and soon you'll you'll have a

753
00:37:01,599 --> 00:36:59,510
different problem you'll have the

754
00:37:03,579 --> 00:37:01,609
problem of I have too many dreams to

755
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:03,589
write down I'll never I'll never get on

756
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:06,290
with my life if I said all day writing

757
00:37:11,050 --> 00:37:08,810
down and I've been there you know and

758
00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:11,060
that's the other point where you have to

759
00:37:15,820 --> 00:37:12,740
start drawing lines and say okay well

760
00:37:17,710 --> 00:37:15,830
maybe this narrative about being in my

761
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:17,720
high school cafeteria I can just let

762
00:37:23,829 --> 00:37:20,450
that way to go because I dream it you

763
00:37:25,930 --> 00:37:23,839
know four times a week or whatever so

764
00:37:28,089 --> 00:37:25,940
what do you say about recurrent dreams

765
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:28,099
what um do you have a particular

766
00:37:34,839 --> 00:37:32,330
protocol that you think about when you

767
00:37:38,109 --> 00:37:34,849
hear say somebody has a recurrent dream

768
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:38,119
to determine whether it's an important

769
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:40,130
message that's being impressed upon

770
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:42,800
their psyche or if it's just garbage of

771
00:37:45,370 --> 00:37:43,610
the day

772
00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:45,380
okay that's a great question because

773
00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:47,150
they recurrent dreams where they come in

774
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:49,310
a few different stripes it seems to me

775
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:51,650
and and some of them are just

776
00:37:58,450 --> 00:37:55,850
essentially like core almost like core

777
00:38:01,630 --> 00:37:58,460
narratives or metaphors places that we

778
00:38:05,110 --> 00:38:01,640
go places that we inhabit that in our

779
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:05,120
dream life you know the hallways and the

780
00:38:11,410 --> 00:38:07,210
landscapes of where you went to college

781
00:38:14,050 --> 00:38:11,420
or high school your childhood home right

782
00:38:16,750 --> 00:38:14,060
you know essentially a lot of dream

783
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:16,760
landscapes tend to be from the first

784
00:38:23,590 --> 00:38:19,370
half of life your first 25 years more or

785
00:38:25,230 --> 00:38:23,600
less and a very intense time of life and

786
00:38:28,330 --> 00:38:25,240
there's lots of learning going on there

787
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:28,340
and so and so just because you have a

788
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:31,250
repetitive dream about for instance the

789
00:38:35,370 --> 00:38:33,200
high school cafeteria doesn't

790
00:38:39,370 --> 00:38:35,380
necessarily mean that something is

791
00:38:41,890 --> 00:38:39,380
impactful there necessarily but you can

792
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:41,900
take that anchor and anchor that to an

793
00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:44,570
intention to to have a lucid dream to

794
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:47,510
wake up in your dream by teaching

795
00:38:52,510 --> 00:38:50,210
yourself when I find myself in the

796
00:38:54,340 --> 00:38:52,520
cafeteria I'm going to do a reality

797
00:38:57,190 --> 00:38:54,350
check I'm going to see if I'm dreaming

798
00:39:00,460 --> 00:38:57,200
or not and that for me has has

799
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:00,470
definitely caused caused lucid dreams

800
00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:01,850
but there's other kinds of repetitive

801
00:39:07,660 --> 00:39:04,700
dreams too and some of them I think can

802
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:07,670
be very important to listen to because

803
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:10,250
they're can contain for instance body

804
00:39:16,990 --> 00:39:14,810
messages basically and the way I see it

805
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:17,000
it's not so much that the body is trying

806
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:18,890
to send a message to you but rather the

807
00:39:24,490 --> 00:39:22,010
body is expressing itself right it's you

808
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:24,500
know and it's coming through the nervous

809
00:39:29,020 --> 00:39:26,210
system and it's being made into

810
00:39:32,170 --> 00:39:29,030
emotional and visual metaphors we can

811
00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:32,180
pick up on them and and there's for

812
00:39:39,220 --> 00:39:36,230
instance some fascinating and timely

813
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:39,230
research being done by an MD named Larry

814
00:39:44,910 --> 00:39:42,560
Burke who has been working with women

815
00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:44,920
who have discovered their breast cancer

816
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:47,990
through warning dreams and he's

817
00:39:53,140 --> 00:39:50,960
collected hundreds of these dreams in

818
00:39:54,580 --> 00:39:53,150
which women had you know they would have

819
00:39:57,370 --> 00:39:54,590
a dream for instance of looking in the

820
00:39:59,940 --> 00:39:57,380
mirror and seeing a spider

821
00:40:02,710 --> 00:39:59,950
on their chest or a dark spot or mushy

822
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:02,720
skin or you know especially these

823
00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:06,890
personalized metaphors of ill ease and

824
00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:09,230
then in waking life they followed up on

825
00:40:14,650 --> 00:40:12,200
it and went in you know had a breast

826
00:40:18,070 --> 00:40:14,660
exam and what have you and indeed

827
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:18,080
discovered discover cancer and he's

828
00:40:24,310 --> 00:40:20,210
written this up in a couple of journals

829
00:40:26,590 --> 00:40:24,320
and he's been really trying to get this

830
00:40:29,050 --> 00:40:26,600
message out because I think that this is

831
00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:29,060
just the tip of the iceberg I think that

832
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:32,200
we get a lot of early warning health

833
00:40:36,690 --> 00:40:35,210
messages through our body and dreams and

834
00:40:40,330 --> 00:40:36,700
they come through these repetitive

835
00:40:43,570 --> 00:40:40,340
messages and in these rooms can be quite

836
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:43,580
short and they can involve you know they

837
00:40:50,380 --> 00:40:46,810
can involve things like like a vampire

838
00:40:53,170 --> 00:40:50,390
biting your throat you know and it could

839
00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:53,180
turn out to be a thyroid issue they can

840
00:40:58,480 --> 00:40:55,040
be quite metaphorical and sometimes it

841
00:41:01,390 --> 00:40:58,490
can be absolutely dead on transparent

842
00:41:03,070 --> 00:41:01,400
about them and so I say if you have a

843
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:03,080
repetitive dream about something that

844
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:04,970
you know you have an intuition about

845
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:07,370
being health related just go ahead and

846
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:10,370
check it out I mean you know definitely

847
00:41:15,070 --> 00:41:12,680
you've got more to lose than then then

848
00:41:16,030 --> 00:41:15,080
then it's the awkward conversation

849
00:41:18,490 --> 00:41:16,040
you're going to have with your doctor

850
00:41:21,250 --> 00:41:18,500
you know what I mean yes indeed that's

851
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:21,260
right yeah and then finally did you know

852
00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:22,610
the other thing about repetitive dreams

853
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:24,200
to some people of course we're all

854
00:41:30,940 --> 00:41:27,170
working through as we go we have this

855
00:41:33,820 --> 00:41:30,950
core personal narrative that that we

856
00:41:36,190 --> 00:41:33,830
developed as kids that helped us survive

857
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:36,200
it helped us make sense of the world and

858
00:41:41,470 --> 00:41:38,720
as we grow and take on roles new

859
00:41:42,970 --> 00:41:41,480
responsibilities those those role you

860
00:41:45,820 --> 00:41:42,980
know the metaphor changes we've run into

861
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:45,830
issues with our myths we might have

862
00:41:50,380 --> 00:41:47,330
repetitive dreams that show us where

863
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:50,390
we're ways of thinking or what behaviors

864
00:41:55,900 --> 00:41:53,450
that no longer serve us and you know

865
00:41:57,580 --> 00:41:55,910
could be addictive patterns it could

866
00:41:59,980 --> 00:41:57,590
just be the way that we you know could

867
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:59,990
be interpersonal of nature you know

868
00:42:03,250 --> 00:42:01,040
there's a hundred different ways that

869
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:03,260
this could go but repetitive dream is

870
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:05,330
that kind of point towards something

871
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:07,280
that needs healing in a psychological

872
00:42:17,830 --> 00:42:14,240
where where do you come down on of the

873
00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:17,840
use of sleep aids I'm not talking about

874
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:22,230
narcotics I'm talking about something

875
00:42:27,260 --> 00:42:24,450
that is sold over the counter in the

876
00:42:31,490 --> 00:42:27,270
United States or you can send a way for

877
00:42:35,060 --> 00:42:31,500
it which is a police and amino acid and

878
00:42:36,530 --> 00:42:35,070
it helps it helps to dream or to

879
00:42:38,660 --> 00:42:36,540
remember dreams do you know what I'm

880
00:42:40,970 --> 00:42:38,670
speaking out by oh there's a few things

881
00:42:44,660 --> 00:42:40,980
well there's sleep aids and then there's

882
00:42:46,490 --> 00:42:44,670
dreaming dream aids and there's um those

883
00:42:50,210 --> 00:42:46,500
are definitely two different markets you

884
00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:50,220
know and in blanket statement for both

885
00:42:57,110 --> 00:42:53,540
of them is they can be very effective

886
00:42:58,850 --> 00:42:57,120
but use them in the short term right not

887
00:43:00,740 --> 00:42:58,860
a long term I mean that's just with

888
00:43:02,690 --> 00:43:00,750
everything the dream aid that I'm

889
00:43:04,820 --> 00:43:02,700
thinking of its recommended by most

890
00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:04,830
people that you use it three or four

891
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:09,180
days in a row once a month and it's an

892
00:43:14,290 --> 00:43:11,280
amino acid I believe do you know what

893
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:14,300
I'm speaking of her might be coleen

894
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:18,090
coleen is a very common amino acid isn't

895
00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:20,880
it that yes it's often paired with B

896
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:26,550
vitamins you're a b6 b12 right and they

897
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:30,000
creates an effect of vivid dreams now

898
00:43:34,450 --> 00:43:32,130
the thing about choline is is that for

899
00:43:39,260 --> 00:43:34,460
some people it keeps them awake I see

900
00:43:41,420 --> 00:43:39,270
and in fact we'd know it increases awake

901
00:43:43,060 --> 00:43:41,430
enhance and so it's not and it's often

902
00:43:45,290 --> 00:43:43,070
also paired with galanthamine

903
00:43:47,660 --> 00:43:45,300
galanthamine that's the one that ah

904
00:43:49,820 --> 00:43:47,670
thinking of yes yeah well as it turns

905
00:43:53,420 --> 00:43:49,830
out I just finished studying some

906
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:53,430
research on galanthamine with a couple

907
00:43:58,340 --> 00:43:54,960
of colleagues of mine at the University

908
00:43:59,900 --> 00:43:58,350
of Texas and we've got an article coming

909
00:44:02,090 --> 00:43:59,910
out very soon in the international

910
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:02,100
journal of dream research on a glance

911
00:44:05,900 --> 00:44:03,570
and meaning it wasn't a clinical study

912
00:44:08,210 --> 00:44:05,910
we're hoping maybe to do that next it

913
00:44:10,820 --> 00:44:08,220
was retrospective and we basically we

914
00:44:14,090 --> 00:44:10,830
asked twenty dreamers who have often

915
00:44:16,610 --> 00:44:14,100
used galanthamine as a supplement for

916
00:44:19,820 --> 00:44:16,620
vivid dreams and for lucid dreams we

917
00:44:24,290 --> 00:44:19,830
asked them how in what ways does using

918
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:24,300
galantamine change their dreams you know

919
00:44:29,090 --> 00:44:26,250
actually affect you know the dream

920
00:44:31,630 --> 00:44:29,100
content and how you feel in the room and

921
00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:31,640
we got some very interesting results

922
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:34,740
that that kind of gave us some further

923
00:44:39,650 --> 00:44:37,380
direction and and well you know it's

924
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:39,660
known for inducing lucid dreams for you

925
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:41,940
know and that's because galanthamine is

926
00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:46,290
a is a memory enhancer I mean it's used

927
00:44:51,230 --> 00:44:49,020
for in mild cases of Alzheimer's it's

928
00:44:53,330 --> 00:44:51,240
it's it doesn't of course cure

929
00:44:55,970 --> 00:44:53,340
Alzheimer's disease but it improves

930
00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:55,980
memory function in the mild to moderate

931
00:44:59,360 --> 00:44:57,510
stages of Alzheimer's disease it

932
00:45:02,000 --> 00:44:59,370
basically gives people a little bit more

933
00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:02,010
time before the final stages of

934
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,980
degradation begin their human brain and

935
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:06,480
so people have been using galanthamine

936
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:07,890
as a supplement which in the United

937
00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:10,770
States you can get on Amazon right all

938
00:45:15,110 --> 00:45:13,260
right now in the UK you can't it's

939
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:15,120
prescription or in Germany can you get

940
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:18,390
it I i know that's perfect yeah okay so

941
00:45:23,870 --> 00:45:21,090
yeah so Europe UK is it's a different

942
00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:23,880
story I in s nited states you know you

943
00:45:28,610 --> 00:45:26,190
just swipe your card and you get it and

944
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:28,620
you know it seems to be quite safe it

945
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:32,280
has it has some mild effects some people

946
00:45:37,270 --> 00:45:34,530
have gastrointestinal issues with it

947
00:45:40,490 --> 00:45:37,280
some people it just gives them insomnia

948
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:40,500
if taken up a wrong time it can actually

949
00:45:46,730 --> 00:45:44,490
induce sleep paralysis in the mill in

950
00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:46,740
the beginning of the night and that's

951
00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:49,710
happened to me before really right yeah

952
00:45:55,310 --> 00:45:51,720
and so what the lucid dreamers do is

953
00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:55,320
they take they set an alarm and day for

954
00:45:58,760 --> 00:45:57,060
the middle of the night basically and so

955
00:46:00,590 --> 00:45:58,770
they get most of their deep sleep you

956
00:46:03,740 --> 00:46:00,600
know all that restorative sleep out of

957
00:46:06,110 --> 00:46:03,750
the way and then wake up around say four

958
00:46:09,860 --> 00:46:06,120
in the morning take the lanta mean in a

959
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:09,870
pill usually four milligrams four to

960
00:46:14,510 --> 00:46:11,730
eight milligrams is pretty typical and

961
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:14,520
then they go back to sleep and at that

962
00:46:19,790 --> 00:46:17,040
point you have longer a longer bouts of

963
00:46:21,290 --> 00:46:19,800
ram the galanthamine kicks in at the

964
00:46:23,420 --> 00:46:21,300
right time and because you'll answer me

965
00:46:26,270 --> 00:46:23,430
at that time it will strengthen your REM

966
00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:26,280
cycles and it'll give you vivid dreams

967
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:28,590
and basically that vividness and the

968
00:46:34,490 --> 00:46:31,170
strengthening of rim is just a perfect

969
00:46:36,830 --> 00:46:34,500
you know envelope for going lucid Wow

970
00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:36,840
yeah so that so it's it's been known in

971
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:38,040
text even laberge you

972
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:39,810
is one of the you know the Stanford

973
00:46:45,350 --> 00:46:43,050
scientist who did all this work on lucid

974
00:46:48,050 --> 00:46:45,360
dreaming he has done also a lot of work

975
00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:48,060
on galanthamine sadly most of it is

976
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:50,900
unpublished he has just been collecting

977
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:53,130
clinical data but he hasn't published

978
00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:56,460
any of it in a peer-reviewed yet so what

979
00:47:00,260 --> 00:46:58,380
we did with our study was well we can't

980
00:47:02,570 --> 00:47:00,270
prove or we can't get the clinical you

981
00:47:05,330 --> 00:47:02,580
couldn't get the you know the study

982
00:47:07,340 --> 00:47:05,340
rights to work with humans yet and so we

983
00:47:09,050 --> 00:47:07,350
basically did this retrospective and

984
00:47:10,730 --> 00:47:09,060
what we found was was interesting what

985
00:47:15,020 --> 00:47:10,740
we found is that people are claiming

986
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:15,030
that that galanthamine makes her dreams

987
00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:18,890
longer it makes them more vivid but also

988
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:22,020
there's less fear and negative emotions

989
00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:24,810
in lucid dreams that are preceded by

990
00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:27,990
galanthamine there's interest yeah it's

991
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:31,260
a feeling of that to put more protected

992
00:47:36,590 --> 00:47:35,370
somehow and we also we asked about hate

993
00:47:38,210 --> 00:47:36,600
is it induced sleep paralysis and

994
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:38,220
actually we didn't get a lot of feedback

995
00:47:43,310 --> 00:47:41,130
from that people or say no it really

996
00:47:44,930 --> 00:47:43,320
doesn't so what we believe what this

997
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:44,940
really does is it shows that there's a

998
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:48,720
culture of galanthamine use and weary

999
00:47:52,070 --> 00:47:50,610
that's really what we investigated is

1000
00:47:54,410 --> 00:47:52,080
this is what people are saying about

1001
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:54,420
their dreams galantamine and so the next

1002
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,090
step is to actually do some double blind

1003
00:48:02,090 --> 00:48:00,240
placebo work to see you know in looking

1004
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:02,100
at the dream reports and seeing how the

1005
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:04,530
dream reports you know actually very

1006
00:48:09,410 --> 00:48:07,410
when they take the substance I think the

1007
00:48:12,110 --> 00:48:09,420
placebo will be very interesting and I

1008
00:48:15,050 --> 00:48:12,120
think that power of suggestion is very

1009
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:15,060
strong I've taken galanthamine on

1010
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:17,730
occasion and um I didn't know that you

1011
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:19,290
were supposed to take it during the

1012
00:48:25,010 --> 00:48:21,330
middle of the night so I took it before

1013
00:48:27,380 --> 00:48:25,020
I went to bed didn't have a I do have

1014
00:48:30,140 --> 00:48:27,390
sleep paralysis in my life which can be

1015
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:30,150
totally terrifying but with the

1016
00:48:33,590 --> 00:48:31,710
galantamine i did not get sleep

1017
00:48:36,260 --> 00:48:33,600
paralysis even though i took it at the

1018
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:36,270
beginning of the night good was but it

1019
00:48:41,810 --> 00:48:39,210
usually took till the second night for

1020
00:48:44,210 --> 00:48:41,820
it to kick in in other words the first

1021
00:48:46,310 --> 00:48:44,220
night I took it I might have some kind

1022
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:46,320
of a dream or not remember any dream at

1023
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:48,900
all but by the second night I took it i

1024
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:51,690
was i was doing well with it and then

1025
00:48:57,260 --> 00:48:55,170
I would take it two to three times so at

1026
00:49:00,500 --> 00:48:57,270
maximum four times in the month because

1027
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:00,510
that's what I was told was a safe and

1028
00:49:07,250 --> 00:49:03,599
usable and generally by the second night

1029
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:07,260
I was having memorable dreams memorable

1030
00:49:12,859 --> 00:49:10,530
dreams if not if not lucid some of them

1031
00:49:15,050 --> 00:49:12,869
lucid now what what do you say to know

1032
00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:15,060
that you're having a lucid dream do you

1033
00:49:22,550 --> 00:49:19,470
go by the usual the usual looking at the

1034
00:49:25,550 --> 00:49:22,560
hands becoming aware of your your hands

1035
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:25,560
Oh enter in terms of activities to do

1036
00:49:29,690 --> 00:49:27,690
during the day know that you would know

1037
00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:29,700
that your lucidly dreaming during the

1038
00:49:36,970 --> 00:49:32,430
night I start to do a reality check well

1039
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:36,980
I have two favorites one is is that I'll

1040
00:49:43,609 --> 00:49:41,250
look at text and all for instance the

1041
00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:43,619
spine of a book or something written

1042
00:49:47,390 --> 00:49:45,300
down something that's more than a word

1043
00:49:50,780 --> 00:49:47,400
something that is at least a phrase and

1044
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:50,790
then i'll look away for a moment and try

1045
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:52,079
to think of something else completely

1046
00:49:57,170 --> 00:49:54,510
and get it out of my head and then i'll

1047
00:50:00,530 --> 00:49:57,180
look back at you know at the text in

1048
00:50:01,970 --> 00:50:00,540
dreams it generally has shifted haha in

1049
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:01,980
dreams and you know in waking life

1050
00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:07,410
generally doesn't we may be living in

1051
00:50:13,540 --> 00:50:10,500
different worlds now I'm kidding another

1052
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:13,550
one that's that's wonderful to try and

1053
00:50:23,510 --> 00:50:19,170
is to is to clamp your nose closed with

1054
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:23,520
your fingers and then try to breathe in

1055
00:50:27,140 --> 00:50:24,990
a dream you're just going to continue

1056
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,150
breathing because it's your dream hand

1057
00:50:31,730 --> 00:50:29,040
that's touching your dream knows you

1058
00:50:34,839 --> 00:50:31,740
know you know and so the breathing

1059
00:50:38,359 --> 00:50:34,849
continues and so that's a that's kind of

1060
00:50:40,099 --> 00:50:38,369
basically foolproof you know there's a

1061
00:50:42,109 --> 00:50:40,109
lot more of other ones but those are the

1062
00:50:44,210 --> 00:50:42,119
ones that I find a most reliable for me

1063
00:50:46,940 --> 00:50:44,220
and of course it's important to do them

1064
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:46,950
in the day too because you want to do a

1065
00:50:52,430 --> 00:50:49,770
repetitive habit make it you're making a

1066
00:50:55,700 --> 00:50:52,440
cognitive habit and you want that habit

1067
00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:55,710
to naturally occur while you're dreaming

1068
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:58,050
and you see how to take it seriously in

1069
00:51:01,670 --> 00:50:59,760
in your waking life you have to actually

1070
00:51:04,550 --> 00:51:01,680
do the reality check and you have to

1071
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:04,560
actually question is this a dream and

1072
00:51:17,420 --> 00:51:04,890
that

1073
00:51:19,730 --> 00:51:17,430
well I've only been teaching this

1074
00:51:22,970 --> 00:51:19,740
particular course for three months now

1075
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:22,980
oh and and so far I've gotten great

1076
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:25,890
responses people are definitely yeah you

1077
00:51:29,630 --> 00:51:27,450
know people are having lucid dreams in

1078
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:29,640
the course their content there you know

1079
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:30,900
and they're having lucid dreams after

1080
00:51:34,670 --> 00:51:32,370
the course and that's really what the

1081
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:34,680
course is about is about teaching them

1082
00:51:40,670 --> 00:51:38,610
the methods to do it and how to go about

1083
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:40,680
and continuously learning and

1084
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:42,480
continuously trying new things so you

1085
00:51:46,670 --> 00:51:44,370
can find out what works for you the best

1086
00:51:50,510 --> 00:51:46,680
because the truth is is that lucid

1087
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:50,520
dreaming education is not been very

1088
00:51:55,610 --> 00:51:53,610
effective we can teach people how to

1089
00:51:58,520 --> 00:51:55,620
lucid dream we know it's learnable I

1090
00:52:00,020 --> 00:51:58,530
mean Stephen Laberge has shown that but

1091
00:52:05,660 --> 00:52:00,030
there's all kinds of motivational issues

1092
00:52:07,070 --> 00:52:05,670
and in myths basically and in so the

1093
00:52:09,470 --> 00:52:07,080
weight you got to make it work for your

1094
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:09,480
own life and that's what I'm basically

1095
00:52:14,450 --> 00:52:11,760
teaching people it's how to sustainably

1096
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:14,460
go lucid and think of it as a lifetime

1097
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:15,900
of learning like something that you're

1098
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:17,970
going to do over the decades because

1099
00:52:22,070 --> 00:52:19,770
that's what it really is it's it's as

1100
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:22,080
for me personally it's a spiritual life

1101
00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:25,170
practice so let me ask you a question

1102
00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:29,790
about your future perhaps perhaps you've

1103
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:31,710
already started this or perhaps you're

1104
00:52:38,270 --> 00:52:35,040
considering doing this I have learned

1105
00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:38,280
through anthropology myself that the

1106
00:52:46,490 --> 00:52:42,270
culture of sharing dreams and the

1107
00:52:49,610 --> 00:52:46,500
culture of having dreams be an important

1108
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:49,620
part of one's life will give rise to

1109
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:53,040
more dreams and that there are cultures

1110
00:52:58,820 --> 00:52:55,250
in South America and in the Pacific

1111
00:53:02,420 --> 00:52:58,830
where people get together every morning

1112
00:53:06,830 --> 00:53:02,430
and share their dreams have you begun to

1113
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:06,840
form a dreaming community haha that's

1114
00:53:12,380 --> 00:53:10,410
great well I have and I've had better

1115
00:53:15,950 --> 00:53:12,390
dream communities to be honest than I do

1116
00:53:17,660 --> 00:53:15,960
right now because right now I am taking

1117
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:17,670
care of a four year old for a good

1118
00:53:22,290 --> 00:53:18,850
portion of the day

1119
00:53:24,570 --> 00:53:22,300
sweet hahaha and so I get a lot of my

1120
00:53:27,420 --> 00:53:24,580
dream community comes through it comes

1121
00:53:30,090 --> 00:53:27,430
through doing these courses and an

1122
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:30,100
online work but I do occasionally get

1123
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:33,490
out to to do dream groups and what I

1124
00:53:39,060 --> 00:53:36,010
recommend for people is if you can could

1125
00:53:41,550 --> 00:53:39,070
join a dream group a peer group you know

1126
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:41,560
you don't have to necessarily find you

1127
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:43,510
know an expert that's charging you by

1128
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:46,510
the hour to do this thing you can you

1129
00:53:53,580 --> 00:53:50,170
can read a book literally read a book on

1130
00:53:56,180 --> 00:53:53,590
having a dream circle learn some best

1131
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:56,190
practices and then take turns

1132
00:54:02,640 --> 00:53:59,200
facilitating the circle with you know

1133
00:54:06,380 --> 00:54:02,650
half dozen of your friends and it's a

1134
00:54:09,870 --> 00:54:06,390
very incredible experience to have

1135
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:09,880
especially especially if you form a

1136
00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:11,530
group right that you get to know each

1137
00:54:15,060 --> 00:54:13,270
other and you have a sense of trust and

1138
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:15,070
you're able to talk about your dreams

1139
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:20,050
and in community and right there's a

1140
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:22,800
sort of FX to it you know what I mean

1141
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:25,450
and this is really what I'm speaking

1142
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:27,850
about is kind of come out of what we

1143
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:30,730
call them the contemporary dreamwork

1144
00:54:37,770 --> 00:54:34,090
movement which began in the 1980s it

1145
00:54:40,910 --> 00:54:37,780
began in berkeley california essentially

1146
00:54:44,130 --> 00:54:40,920
you have a group of dream workers who

1147
00:54:45,570 --> 00:54:44,140
learned these methods and essentially

1148
00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:45,580
said hey you don't need a psychologist

1149
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:48,430
to tell you what your dream means at the

1150
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:51,040
end of the night what you think your

1151
00:54:56,250 --> 00:54:53,280
dream is is the most important thing

1152
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:56,260
it's the most important thing and so

1153
00:55:01,020 --> 00:54:58,090
there's there's an ethics that comes

1154
00:55:02,910 --> 00:55:01,030
with that that i abide by and is it

1155
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:02,920
comes from the international association

1156
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:04,930
for the study of dreams which I'm a

1157
00:55:09,060 --> 00:55:07,690
member and actually a board member and

1158
00:55:11,580 --> 00:55:09,070
you know the organization's been around

1159
00:55:13,830 --> 00:55:11,590
for 30 years and they pee stream work

1160
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:13,840
they teach they support dream research

1161
00:55:19,260 --> 00:55:16,240
that's great everything from science to

1162
00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:19,270
shamanism with this group but ya

1163
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:20,800
contemporary dream work is about

1164
00:55:25,170 --> 00:55:23,440
grassroots it's about doing this in your

1165
00:55:28,140 --> 00:55:25,180
own community and having fun with it

1166
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:28,150
well I'm sure your little child has no

1167
00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:31,040
preconceived ideas have

1168
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:34,040
you ever asks the ire of the boy or the

1169
00:55:39,970 --> 00:55:37,520
girl uh what they think about it safe

1170
00:55:42,250 --> 00:55:39,980
had dreams oh it's great I you know I

1171
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:42,260
asked I asked my son Connor I asked him

1172
00:55:46,930 --> 00:55:45,170
every day what did you dream last night

1173
00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:46,940
and I make that I make the space for it

1174
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:53,180
and what I'm finding is is that he won't

1175
00:55:59,950 --> 00:55:57,920
usually tell me if I ask directly Jose

1176
00:56:02,230 --> 00:55:59,960
he won't remember or I'll tell me about

1177
00:56:05,710 --> 00:56:02,240
his favorite video game which is

1178
00:56:07,060 --> 00:56:05,720
minecraft by the way and it he'll tell

1179
00:56:08,860 --> 00:56:07,070
me about how he had a dream about

1180
00:56:11,910 --> 00:56:08,870
Minecraft which may or may not be true

1181
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:11,920
but what I suspect is that's not true

1182
00:56:15,850 --> 00:56:14,450
but in any case he tells me his story he

1183
00:56:19,660 --> 00:56:15,860
tells me a little bit about Minecraft

1184
00:56:21,820 --> 00:56:19,670
but when he wakes up and he remembers a

1185
00:56:24,730 --> 00:56:21,830
dream now heal spontaneously tell me

1186
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:24,740
he'll say daddy I had a dream wonderful

1187
00:56:30,130 --> 00:56:28,010
and and he has told me there's and he's

1188
00:56:34,060 --> 00:56:30,140
had he's had nightmares and he's had

1189
00:56:36,970 --> 00:56:34,070
really sweet dreams um and you know in

1190
00:56:38,830 --> 00:56:36,980
sort of just images and it's it's cool

1191
00:56:40,750 --> 00:56:38,840
it's very cool and now that he's getting

1192
00:56:43,150 --> 00:56:40,760
the language where he can articulate it

1193
00:56:46,090 --> 00:56:43,160
and the memory you know the memory to

1194
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:46,100
look back and be able to do it it's very

1195
00:56:50,350 --> 00:56:48,290
cool to be here at the onset and to

1196
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:50,360
teach a dream positive to have a dream

1197
00:56:56,110 --> 00:56:52,610
positive house that is that is wonderful

1198
00:56:59,620 --> 00:56:56,120
I have one further question for you

1199
00:57:01,290 --> 00:56:59,630
about dreams and about a dream group and

1200
00:57:04,750 --> 00:57:01,300
that is whether you have ever

1201
00:57:07,690 --> 00:57:04,760
participated in a group of intentional

1202
00:57:10,780 --> 00:57:07,700
dreamers who intend to meet like say

1203
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:10,790
decide that everybody is no matter where

1204
00:57:15,610 --> 00:57:14,090
they're located preferably in in one or

1205
00:57:18,220 --> 00:57:15,620
two time zones you don't want somebody

1206
00:57:19,930 --> 00:57:18,230
you know a totally different time

1207
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:19,940
necessarily though I don't know if that

1208
00:57:26,410 --> 00:57:22,610
makes a difference and you have people

1209
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:26,420
say that on Sunday night we will meet in

1210
00:57:31,930 --> 00:57:29,690
a dream and we will do X Y or Z have you

1211
00:57:35,350 --> 00:57:31,940
ever done like that kind of intentional

1212
00:57:38,050 --> 00:57:35,360
work I I have and and we were it was

1213
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:38,060
this was about ten years ago or so and I

1214
00:57:43,450 --> 00:57:41,090
was with a group of grad students fellow

1215
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:43,460
grad students we we were meeting up and

1216
00:57:47,859 --> 00:57:44,930
talking about dreams about

1217
00:57:51,339 --> 00:57:47,869
once a week and and for a while we tried

1218
00:57:53,170 --> 00:57:51,349
this and we had some interesting i would

1219
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:53,180
say near misses that that could have

1220
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:56,569
been mutual dreams one of looking back

1221
00:58:01,870 --> 00:57:58,250
one of the mistakes and i think we made

1222
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:01,880
is that we often were location dependent

1223
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:04,250
about we're like we'll meet you you know

1224
00:58:10,780 --> 00:58:07,760
in your dream at the beach red then

1225
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:10,790
we'll just meet you and I think that

1226
00:58:17,620 --> 00:58:13,730
that might have quelled the effect

1227
00:58:20,530 --> 00:58:17,630
somewhat but I've heard some very you

1228
00:58:23,770 --> 00:58:20,540
know from people I trust who had pretty

1229
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,780
amazing experiences of mutual dreams you

1230
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:25,280
know to the fact that I'm satisfied that

1231
00:58:29,319 --> 00:58:26,569
they're not that they're not fooling

1232
00:58:31,150 --> 00:58:29,329
themselves they're not lying to me and

1233
00:58:32,890 --> 00:58:31,160
one of those people has actually written

1234
00:58:34,660 --> 00:58:32,900
a book about it and it's called I

1235
00:58:37,059 --> 00:58:34,670
believe it's called mutual it's called

1236
00:58:41,770 --> 00:58:37,069
dream partners that's called dream

1237
00:58:44,380 --> 00:58:41,780
partners but Maria pita and in James

1238
00:58:47,500 --> 00:58:44,390
crawl and these are two people who met

1239
00:58:49,530 --> 00:58:47,510
through a lucid dreaming forum and they

1240
00:58:53,260 --> 00:58:49,540
don't know each other in physical life

1241
00:58:55,630 --> 00:58:53,270
but they they began corresponding and

1242
00:58:58,109 --> 00:58:55,640
then they tried an experiment and are

1243
00:59:01,390 --> 00:58:58,119
both very proficient lucid dreamers and

1244
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:01,400
their their stories their dreams are

1245
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:04,400
incredible the hits are I mean it's just

1246
00:59:09,549 --> 00:59:06,650
you you read his dream you read hers on

1247
00:59:11,620 --> 00:59:09,559
the same night and you're like oh my

1248
00:59:14,890 --> 00:59:11,630
gosh how you know there's clearly

1249
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:14,900
something is going on here so I think

1250
00:59:19,420 --> 00:59:16,730
this is definitely an effect that that

1251
00:59:21,940 --> 00:59:19,430
we need more information on so sounds

1252
00:59:24,309 --> 00:59:21,950
fascinating doesn't it it's great it's

1253
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:24,319
great so and there's yeah and so you

1254
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:25,970
know i would just yet you know find

1255
00:59:31,210 --> 00:59:28,640
somebody to do this with and and mortal

1256
00:59:34,510 --> 00:59:31,220
missed calm is that is the forum that

1257
00:59:39,039 --> 00:59:34,520
those two dreamers attend and it's it's

1258
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:39,049
a very sweet myth mor tal my th am i

1259
00:59:46,780 --> 00:59:43,520
yeah mortal missed as an mi st missed a

1260
00:59:48,370 --> 00:59:46,790
not mess Oh missed that for me mortal

1261
00:59:50,620 --> 00:59:48,380
very nice very nice lucid dreaming

1262
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:50,630
community there well you have to give us

1263
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:53,210
all your website yes now is the time no

1264
00:59:58,720 --> 00:59:56,240
it publicize yourself in any way you

1265
01:00:00,940 --> 00:59:58,730
would like give us your book titles

1266
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:00,950
that website the whole nine yards well

1267
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:02,930
the first thing is is I don't think I've

1268
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:05,450
told you this but I wrote a chapter in a

1269
01:00:11,710 --> 01:00:08,210
book on out-of-body experiences and it

1270
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:11,720
just got released last week it's an

1271
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:14,450
e-book and it's free and you can

1272
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:17,450
download it for free from my website

1273
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:20,210
which is dream studies org and a book is

1274
01:00:26,109 --> 01:00:22,730
called consciousness beyond the body and

1275
01:00:29,050 --> 01:00:26,119
it's basically new perspectives on an

1276
01:00:31,359 --> 01:00:29,060
out-of-body experiences by multiple

1277
01:00:33,700 --> 01:00:31,369
authors multiple researchers the editor

1278
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:33,710
is Alex Defoe there's an Australian

1279
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:36,640
researcher and I wrote a chapter on

1280
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:39,680
looking at evolutionary psychology and

1281
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:42,260
lucid and out of body experiences is

1282
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:45,170
there a way that this phenomena could be

1283
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:48,170
rooted in the deep past you know and and

1284
01:00:51,820 --> 01:00:50,480
and be selected for in some kind of way

1285
01:00:54,130 --> 01:00:51,830
so that was kind of the thought

1286
01:00:56,290 --> 01:00:54,140
experiment of my chapter but there's

1287
01:00:58,720 --> 01:00:56,300
chapters by robert wagner and Claire

1288
01:01:03,040 --> 01:00:58,730
Johnson who are both to lucid dreaming

1289
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:03,050
authors who are well known for for lucid

1290
01:01:07,630 --> 01:01:04,640
dreaming as well as quite a few

1291
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:07,640
out-of-body experience researchers who

1292
01:01:13,660 --> 01:01:09,680
talk about all them basically all the

1293
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:13,670
mysteries the contentions the debate is

1294
01:01:17,859 --> 01:01:16,130
is all taught in the book and so you can

1295
01:01:19,900 --> 01:01:17,869
get it for free it's a PDF and breathe

1296
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:19,910
and right now it's going to be populated

1297
01:01:26,290 --> 01:01:22,850
on amazon and all the other booksellers

1298
01:01:28,510 --> 01:01:26,300
and it will be free as well but as of

1299
01:01:31,900 --> 01:01:28,520
right now you can get it on my site

1300
01:01:33,370 --> 01:01:31,910
easily so so that's that's the plug for

1301
01:01:35,590 --> 01:01:33,380
for the book we're trying to get it out

1302
01:01:39,130 --> 01:01:35,600
and as far and as wide as possible and

1303
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:39,140
generate conversation and yeah I measure

1304
01:01:42,370 --> 01:01:40,730
my website which is dream studies org

1305
01:01:43,980 --> 01:01:42,380
and that's basically right I blogged

1306
01:01:47,740 --> 01:01:43,990
about dreams and consciousness studies

1307
01:01:49,420 --> 01:01:47,750
and yeah you know I welcome anybody to

1308
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:49,430
to take a look it was a lot of content

1309
01:01:56,109 --> 01:01:51,050
there I've been writing on the blog

1310
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:56,119
since 2007 so lots of content yes well

1311
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:58,400
and you also have a newsletter which I

1312
01:02:03,940 --> 01:02:01,520
receive that's right yeah if you you

1313
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:03,950
know subscribe to my newsletter you get

1314
01:02:08,890 --> 01:02:06,650
a free ebook and and then I you know you

1315
01:02:10,690 --> 01:02:08,900
get basically bonus content and in

1316
01:02:12,260 --> 01:02:10,700
opportunities and of course you hear

1317
01:02:13,790 --> 01:02:12,270
about my sales first and

1318
01:02:17,350 --> 01:02:13,800
you hear about my classes because I

1319
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:17,360
always offer my classes to my newsletter

1320
01:02:23,810 --> 01:02:20,490
subscribers first and so far I haven't

1321
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:23,820
had to advertise so you know it's a way

1322
01:02:29,030 --> 01:02:25,920
to go it's just been the newsletter and

1323
01:02:31,250 --> 01:02:29,040
and so that's really the way to get onto

1324
01:02:33,980 --> 01:02:31,260
the waiting list for the classes what we

1325
01:02:35,420 --> 01:02:33,990
thank you so much yeah Ryan for being

1326
01:02:38,780 --> 01:02:35,430
our guest it's been extremely

1327
01:02:41,450 --> 01:02:38,790
instructive and I think our listeners

1328
01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:41,460
are going to be really thrilled to hear

1329
01:02:46,430 --> 01:02:44,460
this so thanks so much for being on

1330
01:02:49,220 --> 01:02:46,440
until we have to say pleasant dreams

1331
01:02:51,110 --> 01:02:49,230
pleasant dreams tonight sweet dreams

1332
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:51,120
sweet rubes days for having me Otto had

1333
01:02:56,810 --> 01:02:53,370
a blast thank you so much for my now

1334
01:02:59,630 --> 01:02:56,820
Ryan thing tonight so Kate that was

1335
01:03:01,400 --> 01:02:59,640
really wonderful right um and we all

1336
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:01,410
have something to work on in the evening

1337
01:03:08,810 --> 01:03:05,010
to intend to have a good dream at night

1338
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:08,820
yeah I wanted to say that I think that

1339
01:03:16,850 --> 01:03:12,570
our next guest is going to be Michael

1340
01:03:22,190 --> 01:03:16,860
Grasso who wrote the book the man who

1341
01:03:26,690 --> 01:03:22,200
could fly which is um all about st.

1342
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:26,700
joseph of cupertino who lived in the

1343
01:03:34,130 --> 01:03:31,050
18th century in the 1750s I think mm-hmm

1344
01:03:39,470 --> 01:03:34,140
and he's going to be our next guest i

1345
01:03:42,830 --> 01:03:39,480
believe all all things being good and so

1346
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:42,840
that's what I wonder if he actually did

1347
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:44,850
fire if he was just dreaming he was

1348
01:03:50,660 --> 01:03:47,370
flying yeah well I've had flying dreams

1349
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:50,670
haven't you no no flying dreams I've

1350
01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:53,010
really dream a person who actually flies

1351
01:03:57,410 --> 01:03:55,260
in real life no flying dreams oh that's

1352
01:03:59,870 --> 01:03:57,420
amazing I know but you know what

1353
01:04:02,690 --> 01:03:59,880
Confucius said what last night I dreamt

1354
01:04:05,030 --> 01:04:02,700
I was a butterfly now today I don't know

1355
01:04:07,580 --> 01:04:05,040
if I'm a man dreaming I was a butterfly

1356
01:04:10,910 --> 01:04:07,590
or a butterfly dreaming I'm a myth I

1357
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:10,920
would agree with that big time Confucius

1358
01:04:16,340 --> 01:04:13,680
say a lot of good things yes yes he did

1359
01:04:18,770 --> 01:04:16,350
he said a lot of wonderful things and so

1360
01:04:22,460 --> 01:04:18,780
I guess it's time for us to say I do too